Discussion for Kitchen-Discretionary CAKE Emissions

Governance Tokenomics
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Based on community suggestion, the Kitchen published a vote proposal on 29 Jan 2024. We proposed to earmark up to 1% of CAKE emissions towards veCAKE gauges as Kitchen-discretionary emissions.

This was to allow the Kitchen to set up ad-hoc Farms for trending token pairs to capture crucial TVL and volume in a timely manner, with the aim of increasing CAKE burn and improving PancakeSwap’s competitiveness as a trading venue.

As there were more votes for “No”, the proposal ultimately did not pass.

We’re opening up this Topic to understand the concerns and thoughts behind the voters of the proposal, to see if we can address them in any way. Please share them in the replies to this Topic.


Contents of the vote proposal:

Proposal for Kitchen-Discretionary CAKE Emissions

After receiving feedback from the community, the Kitchen proposes to earmark up to 1% of all CAKE emissions going to veCAKE gauges as Kitchen-discretionary emissions.

This will allow the Kitchen to flexibly set up Farms for trending token pairs and capture crucial TVL and volume for PancakeSwap, thereby increasing CAKE burn for the community.

Rationale

With the launch of our veCAKE system, Farms are adjusted every 14 days based on the veCAKE vote allocation in the previous epoch. This makes it difficult for the Kitchen to launch ad-hoc Farms in a timely manner to capture TVL and volume for trending projects.

We have done this in the past with a high level of success. Examples include Binance Launchpool projects, tokens with trending narratives (e.g. BRC-20 and memecoins), etc. Some of these pairs were able to capture millions of volumes on their first few days of launch.

The CAKE burned from the trading volume generated by such pairs usually heavily outweigh the CAKE emissions distributed to the Farms. This not only helps with CAKE’s deflationary momentum, but also increases PancakeSwap’s competitiveness as a premier trading venue.

Discretionary CAKE Emission Details

Currently, there is ~0.996 CAKE/block channeled towards veCAKE gauges. We propose to earmark up to 1% of it as Kitchen-discretionary emissions, which is ~0.00996 CAKE/block. We will keep it at 1% even if the CAKE emission rate towards veCAKE gauges changes.

For clarity, the 1% will be deemed as an upper limit, and we don’t foresee hitting the cap anytime soon. This upper limit should be able to sustain 4-5 ad-hoc Farms at any given time.

Farms that are set up using these Kitchen-discretionary emissions will be short-term in nature, to capture TVL and volume when the community interest in those tokens is at its peak. We will then slowly tune down CAKE emission to those Farms to let organic TVL and volumes take over, or transition towards the project team incentivizing liquidity on their own via our veCAKE system.

Implementation

Once this vote proposal passes, the Kitchen would have the discretion to set up ad-hoc Farms using the earmarked CAKE emissions detailed in this proposal. We will include these adjustments and their performance in our fortnightly Epoch Reports on the PancakeSwap Forum.

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We hope to be fair. If the kitchen wants the right to discharge Vecake, please lock the cake in the kitchen.

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Isn’t the admin period made for those votes? Also doesn’t the Kitchen already have a lot of votes?

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If you need this 1%, why don’t you share 1% with the 40% previously granted? Why can’t you buy VECAKE’s lock position yourself? Why strongly support CAKEPIE, while harming the interests of our users? CAKEPIE takes 7 million CAKE and locks it for 4 years, which will dilute our dividend reward? Only the magpie holding the user’s CAKE can be locked for 4 years without fear, and bribery, and fatten the magpie, WHY?

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On why the Kitchen doesn’t accumulate veCAKE or use our admin votes to set up these ad-hoc Farms - the reason is to move fast and flexibly when the need arises.

When tokens are trending in the market, there is usually a slim window of a few days when the mindshare and trading volume are at their peak. We hope to set up Farms for these tokens in those crucial periods to attract TVL and volume to PancakeSwap, ultimately benefiting the community via increased CAKE burns.

If we were to use our admin votes for this purpose, we would have to wait anytime between 1 and 14 days in order for the Farms to be set up, due to the nature of our fortnightly epoch system. This blunts our edge in becoming the main trading venue for these tokens, which might make its way to other platforms.

We plan to report all adjustments along with their respective performance regularly in our Epoch Reports to be transparent with the community.

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There are temporary farm with emission from Multichain Warchest, aren’t those CAKE at Warchest enough to open ad-hoc farm with?

What will happen if 1% veCAKE emission is not used?

The voting rate is low for this proposal. 1 day is too short for a voting proposal, many might don’t know there is a voting proposal on going.

veCAKE is having low APR and its getting lower, its not reasonable to remove more voting power from veCAKE holder to further lower lock CAKE APR.

—forward from group.

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Thank you for the questions!

1 - Using emissions from the Multichain Warchest is technically possible, but not recommended as it is a tedious operational process, would further increase the CAKE supply, and takes ~3-4 days to fully take effect due to our MasterChef smart contract design. All for a Farm that maybe emits 65 CAKE per day.

We feel it would be much more streamlined if we take a small portion from the existing veCAKE emissions instead.

2 - If there are no ad-hoc Farms, the 1% veCAKE emission will continue to go towards all other Farms, which are voted for by veCAKE holders. Only when an ad-hoc Farm is established will the CAKE emission be ‘used’.

For context, we foresee the 1% veCAKE emission to be able to sustain 4-5 ad-hoc Farms at any one point. This is not our target, but rather a buffer in case there are that many trending tokens we wish to capture volumes for.

3 - We will extend the voting period to 72 hours for the new proposal

4 - We feel this proposal has minimal impact (capped at 1% veCAKE emission) to veCAKE APR, and will likely deliver outsized rewards to CAKE holders in the form of increased CAKE burns from the high trading volume that we hope to capture.

If the ad-hoc Farms are ineffective or the project tokens underperform, we will be quick in removing those Farms, allowing the CAKE emissions to flow back to the other Farms.

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I’m mot satisfied with my cake return for veCake.

I don’t wanna change to mCake, something else or change chains.

I bought cake to stake them and get more cake.

But veCake staking is so worse now. that i get really more at my bank.

seems farms are prefered.
stake thit + that to get cake. Would be better: stake cake to get another coin.

and veCake Pool 50%. i won’t restake mine. just hodl.

i think veCake stakers will run away. that would be a worse cenario.

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Thank you for surfacing your concerns @mooni

With the launch of gauges voting, the veCAKE Pool is no longer the only source of yield for veCAKE holders.

With primary bribe marketplaces set up by some of our veCAKE Managers, veCAKE holders (including yourself) are able to vote for certain gauges every epoch and receive bribes (i.e. yield) in return. This is similar to what you mentioned: stake CAKE to get another coin.

Granted, you won’t be staking CAKE to earn CAKE, but you can always swap the bribe tokens to accumulate more CAKE (which we encourage!).

Regardless, this proposal should not affect the yield on the veCAKE Pool too significantly as we are proposing to cap it at 1% of the veCAKE emissions. We expect this proposal to be a net benefit to (ve)CAKE holders as the CAKE burn from captured volumes should outweigh the CAKE emissions distributed to the ad-hoc Farms.

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After listening to community feedback, we’ve published an updated vote proposal that reduces the ask to 0.67% of veCAKE emissions and mentions the various clarifications discussed on this Forum.

We’ve also extended the voting period to 72 hours. vlCKP and sdCAKE holders can vote on their respective governance platforms, and the results will be applied by the respective protocols on our vote proposal.

For now, as we only support multiple choice voting on our Voting page, the veCAKE Managers will vote for the option that receives >50% of votes on their respective governance proposals. We’ll explore if it’s possible to support weighted voting on our UI in the future, so that the veCAKE Managers can more accurately mirror their results on our vote proposals.

We welcome more discussions on the topic here as we optimize for the best outcome for the PancakeSwap ecosystem!

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We’ve just published a vote proposal to launch a PANDORA-WETH Farm on Ethereum PancakeSwap.

This is an example of the type of ad-hoc Farms we’d look to set up with the Kitchen-discretionary emissions. Imagine if the Kitchen can set up a Farm within just a few hours of a token/project trending in the market - we can very easily capture significant volumes and TVL and become the go-to trading venue for future trending tokens.

For now, we have to pass a 24-hour vote proposal before we can launch the Pandora Farm, which adds a layer of delay to our execution speed. But hopefully the Kitchen-discretionary vote proposal can change that!

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I generally agree with most replies here off the users. You guys want us to hold cake. But for yields we should convert to mcake or sdcake or other gauges why is that. How come they get much higher apy. And long time holders now stuck with vcake low apy. This isnt normal always voting every epoch and make transaction cost. You should have to vote once and extend automatically next epoch. If user want vote different only the. He need vote again. I am little dissapointed at this point. Chefs working with cakepie and stakedao. Only inform holders in last stages. I feel kitchen no longer necessry need the long time holder so just keep as is or find a way to make holders apy without need to convert to anyother token like mcake or sdcake. Since emission come from pancake its not normal they get huge emmissions and normal vecakeholder now with gauges get nothing. You should post some example videos on how users can benefit gauges holding vecake instead off encourage to swap to other tokens for yields. I think always vecake on bnb chain should get best apy since this is the base of cake

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hello @Otje ! The APR that veCAKE receives is the same for everyone, whether individual users or veCAKE manager projects such as Cakepie or StakeDao. The longer the locking time and the more locked CAKE, the more veCAKE and the more veCAKE, the more yield.

In addition, there are now vote incentives (bribes). There are several ways to access these rewards, whether within veCAKE management projects or with your own veCAKE through Hidden Hands or StakeDao’s votemarket, which are external bribery markets.

You must choose what is best for you. But there is a range of options and possibilities that increase performance and serve different types of users. With veCAKE, new protocols, bribery market, it is great for all CAKE holders whether it is made directly on Pancake or other platforms built on top of the Pancake.

I advise you to see the docs about this: veCAKE Managers - PancakeSwap

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hi @Otje @mooni thanks for the feedback.

I would first like to clear a misunderstanding that Cakepie or StakeDAO gets “more yield”. They do not get any preferential treatment. All stakers, including Cakepie and StakeDAO, are sharing the same CAKE emissions from staking. As veCAKE yields are directly proportionate to the time staked, Cakepie and StakeDAO have higher yields simply because they’re staking the full 4-year duration, as opposed to most CAKE that’s staking for shorter durations. They do not get any extra CAKE emission from PancakeSwap and you will be able to access the same yields if you opt to stake for the 4-year duration as well.

for mCAKE and sdCAKE, they do not get more yields either. these are just representations of the 4-year stakes that Cakepie and StakeDAO did. While there are some subtle differences, these protocols are largely just passing on the 4-year CAKE staking yields from the CAKE collected by them to users.

We encourage you to explore longer-duration locks if your primary goal is to achieve higher veCAKE APRs. veCAKE yields are distributed with more weight to longer-term stakers.

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Hi Mochi
I’m in Krypto to make gains.
i have staked cake in 3 Pools. one of them is a 4 years pool, with staked cake worth 8937$.

Fixed-term Deposit on a german Bank with 3.65% interest, locked for 1 year & with european deposit protection, 100.000€, I’d get for 8298 € = $8937: 326€. No further costs.

In a cake 4! years staking Pool i get for the same amount actually 1,19 cake a week.
Weekly LESS!!!
Actually 1 cake is worth. $2,50 = 2,32€
2,32€×1,19= 3,95€ per week. In 52 weeks I get On PancakeSwap 205,44€ in 1 year and have each week to pay $0,18 bnb.

Disadvantages to stake cake in 4 years pool compared to fixed term deposit (see Paragraph 2+3):

  1. risk that cake is less worth in 4 years
  2. lock is 3 years longer !!!
  3. less interest rate than a german bank (1y)!!!
  4. no funds protection
  5. each week less cake return.!!!
  6. no law protection. kyc… 1000€ tracking - necessary for law.

The veCake System you deployed is a fush for your longterm holders. I feel betray.
I’m VERY disapointed also, you made cake staking complicated for beginners. The games are uncool. You make a trash PancakeSwap.

I was a big cake fan. But i’m really VERY disappointed. It’s called CAKE

Cake holders aren’t stupid! You make millions with our money each year!!!

Sorry my 4 years cake lock Screenshot, i can’t send…an error occoured cause embbed pic can’t be sent

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Hi Mooni,

The staking APR for a 4 year lock is higher than 3.65% on a CAKE basis. Cakepie and StakeDAO, which are staking CAKE for 4 years and which are staking on the same veCAKE pool as all users, show that as the APRs they’re passing back to users are in the range of 17-30%. These protocols are generally on 4-year locks.

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Second, the introduction of the veCAKE has brought in external vote incentives which veCAKE holders are entitled to when they help build project liquidity on PancakeSwap. I’ve discussed this in more detail here - hopefully you will take a look here (https://twitter.com/chef_mochi/status/1753381123739303994).

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While I appreciate that the staking yield system is less intuitive than before, veCAKE has attracted external projects to provide vote incentives to veCAKE holders. This has allowed veCAKE stakers to benefit from additional rewards while keeping CAKE inflation negative. Unlike many fiat systems, where the underlying monetary base is inflating, CAKE has been mostly deflationary since Q3 of 2023 and yields earned by veCAKE are not diluted by underlying inflation.

We appreciate the feedback that the CAKE staking has become more complicated. We are still in the early stages of rolling veCAKE out, and will seek to improve the UIUX of the PCS ecosystem over this year to make vote incentives more accessible to users who do not want to venture outside of the PancakeSwap protocol. In the meantime, we encourage you to explore the vote incentive ecosystem as CAKE’s yield ecosystem is much more diverse now.

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just to bring one more piece of data @ChefMochi ! Look it @mooni!

According to Seb’s data, this week the total amount distributed by the CAKE stake pool was 2,476 $CAKE/1000 veCAKE.

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Annualizing this, would be approximately 128 CAKE total by year, that would be approximately 12.8% APR for CAKE 4-years locked. all this without considering the voting incentives(bribes).

Remembering that this is variable and can increase and increase depending on the volume of the Pancake due to the revenue share mechanism.

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The reason mCAKE pool is getting higher APR:
Both mCAKE pool is Receiving 37.35% of CAKE pool and Revenue Sharing.
2.8M mCAKE is in liquidity, earning veCAKE emission.
So 4.5M mCAKE is sharing 7M veCAKE’s CAKE pool, Revenue Sharing, with additional farm APR and CKP APR.

I am still in research of how to use StakeDAO’s website not quit make everything clear yet.

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Which Bribes do you mean?

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The bribes that veCAKE holders can earn are rewards in addition to the cake pool rewards (emissions and revenue share).

1 Like